"@Steve - HD DVD has always been selling significantly more stand alone players than Blu-ray. The Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray player, however, has had its price slashed because nobody was buying them, even at the 'low price' of around $500. And guess what, even with Samsung's price cut, they still aren't selling very well at all. People are flocking to HD DVD, and for good reason."

"They didn't just slash the price. They released a new lower cost model. That is how it works you know, products come down in price over time. AMD and Intel both cut prices on their high end CPUs recently...oh no I guess no one is buying them!"

"Unless Sony drop the Price of the PS3 of course, then it's "PS3 in crisis, slashing price to boost sales".."

"Seems fanboys like Alex want it both ways, and twist the facts to suit today's argument.."

"No, if the PS3 dropped in price it would be the result of the cost of components coming down. You like to put words in people's mouths don't you. I suppose the only way you have of winning any arguments is to make them up though. How sadly lame."

"Even funnier, you then call me a fanboy while going on a rant about how HD-DVD is getting slaughtered and links to sales figures, etc. Ever hear the story about the pot and the kettle?"

"Hey I just came across some new information (thanks lard!). Forget HD-DVD and other blu-ray players, the PS3 has a JAVA logo ON THE BOX! So no need to buy anything else, just buy a PS3!"

"@Niro -- All Blu-ray players play the "outdated" BD-J specification. The problem is with the new spec coming out on October 31. Current stand alone players are not upgradable, and there is no guarantee from Sony that the PS3 will be fully upgradable either. Now THAT'S scary."

"PS3 is a software based player, that's not going to be replaced by another product in the shortterm. It's almost certain it WILL be updated to play the new BD-J spec."

"What is SCARY is there are people that actually believe the FUD spread by a few of the 200,000 HD-DVD owners..."

"@Joey - Well, let's see. In order to be compliant with the new BD-J spec, players will need to have either 256MB or 1GB of memory for persistent storage. Hmmm, a firmware upgrade won't do that. They also need to have two decoders for true Picture-in-Picture. Hmmm, a firmware upgrade won't do that either. You can call it FUD all you like, but anybody with half a brain cell knows that it is FACT. Current stand alone Blu-ray players will NOT be compliant with the new BD-J spec with a firmware upgrade."

"Well PS3 has at least 20GB of persistent storage, so there is a tick there. Because it's decoder is software based on the Cell, it's also flexible enough to handle as many decoders as needed, so that's a tick there also."

"Whilst your statement about some players not being able to do it, I would also say the PS3 is about the most future-proof hardware on the market right now. Most players have dedicated chipsets to handle the decoding, the PS3 is all done by the Cell in realtime."

"He didn't say that it WOULD NOT be upgradeable, he said that there is no guarantee that it will be and he's right. Do you always make stuff up so you can attack people's posts?"

"Tell me about it. I just looked all over my 360 and it doesn't seem to have a java log on the box. I'm pretty upset about it...I'm going try to sell it on ebay before others discover this disturbing news and get myself a future proof PS3 with a java log on the box ASAP."

"My computer doesn't have a java logo either, I am so mad! From now on before I buy a new computer, TV, dishwasher or whatever I'm going to make sure it has one of those java logos on it. That must be why Windows Vista is dead, I don't think they have a java logo on it's box either."

"I think they were prevented from distributing Java many years back by Sun, after hacking it to suit their own needs..."

"Who is they? I suppose you mean Microsoft? First of all Microsoft did not build my computer, and second of all I was being sarcastic genius. I guess you didn't pick up on that, even with the dishwasher part. Wow..."

"Let me know when the $200 players are on the shelves. I'll spend that much on a high def player, but add in player and the still high price of 1080p displays it just isn't worth it to get one."

"But how do you maintain your composure at not being able to watch Laura Croft: Tomb Raider!?!?!?!?!"

"Oooh... Angelina Jolie in HD? hmmmmm... *scratches chin* I hadn't thought of it that way yet! Let me check my bank balance and get to Best Buy first thing in the morning. :)"

"Hey now...You stay away from my woman. I got a keyboard and I ain't afraid to use it!!!"

"OOHHHH, i wanna work for Sony too. Are they compensating public bloggers / posters better than MS?"

"I'm pretty sure he's making reference to the PS3 and 360 "fanboy" posts below."

"Why even bother insulting him with personal attacks? You only motivate him to post something more ridiculous because he got you upset. You also put your own posting privileges at risk for no benefit."

"Well I came to say congrats to Toshiba only to find that Keith Lard is trolling and messing up the whole thread again. What a worthy member to Betanews. At least he is getting owned as usual."

"Anyway it's good to see a new lower cost HD player on the market, and lots of new titles coming."

"Woo, more than a PS3... Why waste your cash on something that will be a doorstop by xmas?"

"Is Sony making a profit on the PS3 units? Nope - or at the very least, not a substantial profit."

"Has the continued success of PS2 and Wii taught Sony anything about the marketing of big expensive consoles that offer only a few games and a fancy DVD player for use on 1080p TVs that few have?"

"Who has crippled the backwards compatibility of their European units in an effort to try to stop the hemorrhaging of costs?"

"Whose old school platform is generating more profits than their new whizzbang platform that everyone was supposed to embrace without question?"

"And who has 'The Chronicles of Ridd***' and 'Laura Croft: Tombraider' as COMPELLING (ROFLMAO) HD titles to watch over and over on their overpriced consoles? Titles that failed to sell even in theaters or on standard DVD? Whoopee!!!"

"Whine and jump up and down all you like, the niche that the XBox360 and the PS3 play is a marginal one at best. Who cares... And all of the debate over them simply contributes to the noise floor."

"Sony is not making a profit. Microsoft is not making a profit. Nintendo is not making a profit. None of them will for a while yet."

"I see all three on shelves. The Wii is out selling the other two but none are sold out."

"The old consoles will always generate more profits than the newly launched console. The new consoles don't provide a return on investment until many units and games are sold."

"Since that's not exclusive BD titles what's the point? Heck you even quote titles that are listed in this article about HD-DVD."

"Apparently plenty of people care. To be specific the gamers care, some of them care far too much. I still hold out some hope that Sony will win in the console war, but I'm currently more likely to buy a 360 than a PS3 because I want the best gaming experience possible for my buck. Right now Microsoft has that. I don't count Wii as an option because I demand HD, that's my choice and I'm waiting for prices to come where I want them first."

"So even if I have wanted Blu-ray to win, this is still good news for me to see. In the end I just want more HD bang for my buck. :)"

"Spoken like a true Sony fanboy. But he referred to an HD-DVD title! Oh no!"

"A typical gameboy/fanboy rant as opposed to looking at the issue from a strategic marketing point of view."

"Unfortunately, their total percentage of the market is not that impressive. And while you can rave that its all good, the high end platforms are not having the revolutionary impact that some had hoped."

"And who cares if a game is HD? I really don't care if I can see their nose hairs any more than I care if I can see Oprah's! And just like HD television, we are still limited by the program material - now several hundred channels of he same old sh!t. Whoopee."

"Actually Nintendo does make a profit on every Wii sold. I believe Microsoft has been making a profit on the 360 for quite some time now though I'm not positive."

"Then I stand corrected on the Wii with that one regard. Thanks. My points above still remain the same that the previous poster's points were all invalid. He was placing PS3 vs 360. :)"

"Microsoft are still taking a loss on the 360 and the HD-DVD drive. Nowhere near as much as Sony, but a loss"

"Nintendo are making a loss also. Not much, but then relative to the RRP of the console, it's quite a large loss."

"What you Sony zealots don't seem to understand is that the home theater and video gaming are two very separate markets. No matter how desperately Sony tries to tie them together, it's not going to happen anytime soon. The PS3 is a lose-lose for Sony. On one hand, it's a much too expensive gaming device that little Johnny and his 9 to 5 parents simply can't afford. On the other hand, as a cheap next generation multimedia device, it creates huge losses for Sony."

"Console manufacturers traditionally take a hit on the hardware, and make their money back + profit on the software. As a console, the PS3 is too expensive and you would have to buy many games (I forget what the attach rate is, but it's the highest in video game history) just for Sony to break even. That's not even mentioning the lack of quality games for the PS3. Why buy a PS3 when you can buy the Xbox360 + several games (same ones as PS3) for the same price?"

"If bought as a low-cost Blu-Ray player, you would still have to buy 30+ titles before Sony starts making a profit. Again, there's the lack of quality titles and the fact that DVD is still king. Let's be realistic, neither HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray are pulling in stellar numbers."

"Then there's the very small segment of rich kids and yuppies who buy the PS3 for playing both games and BD titles. That small segment isn't going to save the sinking ship we call Sony."

"Wow, you're still here. I figured after being humiliated for your stupidity in the Halo 3 thread you might disappear with the rest of your fanboy buddies. I guess even they got tired of kissing Kutaragi's butt all the time."

"I know you would think he would get tired of being proven wrong over and over again."

"By the way, the HD-A20 does do Dolby TrueHD. This is mandatory in all HD DVD players, unlike Blu-ray."

"So how does it output TrueHD audio? I can't via optical, nor can it via HDMI... Perhaps it does it by magic??"

"Blu-Ray is great.. except for the fact they don't have a finalized standard yet. Sony and the BD gang are moving the goal posts again. Buy a BD player today and find out 6 months from now that you're no longer fully compliant. Oops."

"Lol what is the deal. This post has been here forever and not one Sony Cheerleader has responded...It's almost like they are avoiding it! *gasp*"

"Seriously who gives a flying **** about TrueHD audio. I would be willing to bet that the VERY large majority of people could not tell the difference. Also as stated below HD-DVD can do TrueHD, which shows that you are yet again spouting BS."

"I agree, true HD audio is the least important thing to most people. 99% of all people couldnt tell you the difference between HD audio and a 128kb MP3 file."

"Keith, you are one serious moron. I bet you don't own a PS3 or a BD player just like Davey. Scumbags."

"Keith Lard, are you for real? Do you think that HDMI 1.3 is needed in order to hear TrueHD audio? Go back and learn the basics of HD DVD and Blu-ray, and then make an informed decision. What you're spewing right now is, well, a bunch of lard."

"It's a sub $400 player, do you really think the people this is targeted at give a rats a** about TrueHD or even know what that is? This is why Sony fails, they have no grip on reality. If low end players had all the features of their high end models, that would be rather pointless wouldn't it. I'm sure you probably still believe that overpriced POS called a PS3 is a great buy. That is why they are rotting on the store shelves."

"Edit: Well from the post above it appears you are wrong about TrueHD anyway. Big surprise."

"You are nothing more than a brainwashed Sony sheep bleating about how great they are because apparently it fills some kind of void in your pathetic life. We understand you like Sony, but nobody here cares. So in other words, stop embarrassing yourself."

"That is unless you have any more really funny claims like how Vista died a horrible death. I must admit I do enjoy those, stupidity is so entertaining sometimes. :D"

"For $100 more, you can get a 20GB PS3 that does HDMI 1.3, TrueHD, and futurproof, Blu-Ray 50GB, game console.."

"What fool would spend $400 on a single purpose device that does not do it's single purpose very well (compare the startup times of even the best HD-DVD drive to a PS3, and it will lose by at least a minute)."

"This is a last ditch attempt by Toshiba to break te market, but it can't afford to subsidise much more (it's already losing over $200 per machine, with no revenue stream to win it back)."

"@ Keith Lard -- The 20GB PS3 has been discontinued Sherlock. The cost of entry into Blu-ray is $599 (plus the cost of the remote, plus the cost of an HDMI cable, plus the cost of movies) unless you want a crap Blu-ray player like the "please buy me" Samsung BD-P1000. You're looking at spending at least $700 for this. The cost of entry into HD DVD is $299 for the HD-A2 (which comes with a free HDMI cable if you buy from Value Electronics and 5 free HD DVD movies from Toshiba. Oh yeah, it comes with a REMOTE too)."

"Looks like Sony was bleeding too much. They don't lose as much by selling the 60GB PS3."

"In all fairness I do want to point out that the discontinuation of the 20GB model is a very recent announcement by Sony. Hopefully we all saw it coming when we saw hints of the larger (120 I think it was) drive model coming later this year."

"The PS3 is a game console. Consumers who want to buy home theater equipment do not buy consoles no matter how much BS you and Sony spew about them. What fool would pay $100 more when all they want to do is watch movies?"

"By the way, Sony doesn't even sell the 20GB PS3 anymore. It was only available in NA and now it has been pulled here too.* Oh darn, there are those pesky facts ruining all your fantasies again. Meanwhile the remaining 60 GB models continue to sit on store shelves gathering dust. Too bad..."

"Perhaps true when talking about lame USB connected accessories to a console that's as quiet as a tornado. However in this case, the PS3 Blu-Ray player outclasses everything else on the market, including the dedicated standalones, both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.."

""the quality of playback exceeds that of many current standalone Blu-ray and HD DVD players""

"Do you even read the links you post??? Ok the 2nd one talks about how much better it is than current stand alone Blu-Ray players. No where in there does he say it is better than the Blu-Ray players. He only talks of HD-DVD a few times and when he does he says there is little if any difference."

"Also your first link doesn't even work at all. It just goes to the hometheatermag.com home page."

"@Keith -- 'exceeds that of many current standalone Blu-ray and HD DVD players' -- except, for example, the Toshiba HD-XA2 which is currently the BEST high-definition player right now, period. And you can buy it for LESS than even the 60GB PS3! How you like them
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